Staff Review: Modular Driven Technologies LSS Chassis

Discussion in 'Modifications' started by MechTech, Mar 16, 2014.

  1. MechTech Moderator/ Damn Yankee

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    The staff here at MossbergMVP.com recently got the chance to review the LSS chassis from MDT(Modular Driven Technologies). LSS stands for Light Sniper Systems and is lower cost light weight version of the proven TAC21 chassis. MDT has been developing their tactical chassis applications for bolt action precision rifles since 2009 with a strong emphasis on utilizing AR 15 ergonomics. The LSS chassis application for the Mossberg MVP rifle is designed to accept an AR 15 collapsible butt stock and pistol grip. There is also an adapter available to mount fixed butt stocks if desired. The chassis kit doesn't include shoulder butt stock, pistol grip or magazine, offering plenty of options to customize your LSS chassis with AR 15 goodies. Here is the product description from MDT :

    The LSS chassis for the Mossberg MVP accepts AR-15 Magazines and installation of bolt on MIL-STN-1913 accessory mounting rails on the bottom of fore-end. Mounting holes are spaced for Magpul style L5 (11 slots) and L3 (7 slots) rails (1.600” / 3.200”).
    The LSS chassis is engineered to minimize warping and distortion. The rifle receiver only makes contact with the LSS chassis on the V shape bedding and recoil lug area insuring the best accuracy and repeatability. The generous clearance on the fore-end makes OEM Standard and Bull barrel free floating.
    First Impressions

    I received the LSS chassis about 3 weeks ago coming off MDT's first production run for the MVP rifle. The chassis comes with installation instructions as well as 2 allen head action screws and a grip screw. The machining and finish of the chassis is top notch, comparable to any hi-end billet AR 15 upper or lower. The trigger guard area looks to be about 30% bigger and the magazine release button is in the same place as the AR 15. During a function test of the chassis mag release, I found that it would not retain any AR 15 type magazine. MDT uses a standard AR magazine catch and within a minute or two I swapped it out with one from a parts kit and fixed the problem. I compared the magazine catches and found the one supplied was machined incorrectly. I contacted MDT about this issue and they were aware of it affecting the first couple units of the production run and have since corrected it.
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    Chassis Installation
    Once you have installed your pistol grip, buffer tube w/ castle nut, and butt stock on the LSS chassis, mounting the MVP action is a breeze. The action bedding area is rock solid and the action screw torque spec is included in the instructions. For our review we added a bipod using the sling swivel provided with the chassis. We did notice that the action screws engage the action about .030" deeper than the standard MVP stock and action screws. I think this ensures a solid bedding surface.

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    To the Range!!
    The range conditions were 32 degrees with some overcast and a 5-10 MPH cross wind. Now, I have shot my MVP enough to know it would be hard to top the accuracy. To think that the LSS chassis would enhance the accuracy of the MVP might be expecting too much. If any thing I would be looking to see if the accuracy suffers from swapping the chassis.
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    Right off the bat, we have a failure with the MVP action. We swapped the action from the second MVP rifle we had with us and continued the review. ( Action failure not related to the LSS chassis.)
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    The first thing I noticed was the point of impact of my rifle changed once I installed the LSS chassis. I feel this is due to the superior action bedding of the LSS chassis and was easily corrected with a few elevation and windage adjustments. Within a few shots, the MVP-LSS chassis combo was grouping and I was smiling:D!
    [IMG]This was a group shooting 10 rapid shots off a bipod.
    Final Thoughts
    I believe this chassis completes the MVP rifle. Mossberg has given several stock offerings for the MVP including the Varmint, Predator and Flex. None of which even compare to the ergonomics and versatility of the LSS chassis. If you are looking for a tactical chassis that ensures accuracy and incorporates AR 15 ergonomics, the MDT LSS chassis is for you.
    Kilo1, S1Loki and Yute like this.
  2. Yute New Member

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    Looks great! The ar15 magazine catch looks like a huge improvement!
  3. bombadillo Moderator

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    I think I just fell in love with this platform once again. I can't wait to get mine and throw up some pics for all!!!!
  4. Jimmy2112 Active Member

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    Thanks for the review!

    Sine Mossberg refuses to sell the complete Flex stock to MVP owners looking to tactically trick out their rifles. The MDT LSS, is the next best option. And will offer greater flexibility (no pun intended).

    Could you possibly post a few more pix? Especially of the right side and the six o'clock position of the foregrip?

    How well did the magazine seat, when compared to the factory setup? Is it any better?

    I'm hoping to get my chassis ordered this week.
  5. MechTech Moderator/ Damn Yankee

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    Jimmy, there really is no comparing the Flex stock to the MDT LSS chassis. The LSS chassis is the best choice hands down.
    Once we swapped out the defective mag catch, the magazine seated nice and secure. The location of the magazine release button is one of the best features of the LSS chassis. It's my MVP rifle and my AR 15 all in one. It really is the complete package!:D

    I will try to get a few more pics up this week.
  6. Jimmy2112 Active Member

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    MDT makes an amazing product. Very impressed with all I've read and viewed on the Tac 21 chassis. So much so, after I get the MVP squared away. With the LSS chassis. I'll begin saving up for a Remington 700 SPS Tactical .308, 16.5" threaded barrel rifle. And the Tac 21 chassis.

    I wanted an MVP Flex but, was unable to find one. So when the Patrol Rifle turned up, I grabbed it. I thought, I'd be able to buy a complete Flex stock from Mossberg. When I explained to them what I was wanting to do. Mossberg was a little put off by the idea. And got down right rude by the end of the conversation. Mossberg really needs to work on their customer service.

    Glad I wasn't able to buy the Flex stock though. Because the LSS will meet my needs, with better fit and functionality then the Flex stock.

    Thanks again for the review!

    Jim
  7. S1Loki Active Member

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    I tip my hat to you Mech.

    Time to feed the piggy bank of mad money.
  8. MechTech Moderator/ Damn Yankee

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    Start diverting the beer money! The next batch of chassis will be released in May.
  9. Jimmy2112 Active Member

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    I Was told by MDT that they do have the Chassis in stock, ready to be shipped.
  10. spamassassin Well-Known Member

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    Got my chassis within 6 days of ordering. Here's my review.

    The Good:
    Love this stock. Even the things they didn't do perfectly are done better than factory and are actually done pretty well. It's very light, rigid as hell and configurable to your hearts and wallets desires. The mag release is a major ergonomic win and the overall fit and finish are brilliant. Nothing in the design is a deal killer and nothing in the execution manages to get there either.


    The not as good as it could be:
    Mag-well cut moves up toward the action like a pair of french cut shorts needlessly. Leaving the extra material there would have helped stabilize the magazine better. It would have been better to make it look and act more like an AR-15 mag well than to cut that extra half ounce from the chassis for no real reason. NOTE: My 30 round GI mags fit and function better in the LSS than in the factory stock so this is not so much bad as just not as good as it could be.


    The Bad:
    The fore-end is overly narrow and if you get to quick-running a 30 round mag in a marmot field you'll probably end up burning the snot out of your hand if you're incautious enough to grab the rifle by the fore-end. This is bad. A little extra material or a teensy design change would have mitigated the issue without a major weight penalty. Even an option for a full cage over the barrel would have been better.

    The tail spout hangs excessively far from the point where the action properly ends. This causes an unnecessary increase to length of pull and makes fixed stocks too long to use for a large wad of the population. Collapsing carbine type buttstocks solve the LoP problem but I just can't see those being appropriate to a precision rifle with all the slop and rattle. I own one (MOE buttstock with .75" riser) and I like it so this is a minor gripe.

    Pricing is set so that there is no argumentatively useful value proposition biasing toward the LSS. It's the only game in town and that's really the only reason I see for everyone fawning over it. If XLR Industries or McCree's were to get into the MVP game I think that MDT would find they need to drop the price by 100 bucks to stay competitive. With a Magpul PRS stock and a 20 dollar pistol grip you end up in the stock for nearly $800. With an MOE stock and a 20 dollar pistol grip you end up at $550 for the stock. For that money you can get into XLR chassis with stock (just not for the MVP) or any of a bunch of other chassis systems. I think MDT needs to re-think the $400 price point. $300 would be more sensible and make the LSS the only game that's worth making and would avoid future competition from XLR, Choate, et al.

    There are some really odd machining cuts that are made. Some are obviously meant to allow other more important cuts to be made but some of them just leave me with question marks. One big question mark is why they didn't cut it for AI spigot receiver for bipod attachment. There's plenty of meat in front of the mag well do allow for it, the rifle balances at that point and it would look really cool.


    The catastrophically stupid:
    The grip screw hole is just tapped right into the aluminum. This is just dumb and cheap. Most people can't use clothespins or napkin dispensers without breaking something. To think they're going to be able to repeatedly install a hardened steel screw into an aluminum threaded hole without buggering up the threads is just ignorant denial of the truth. People are stupid and incompetent. MDT should have put in a TimeSert with a little locktite or epoxy to hold it fast forever. It would cost them about a dollar per unit to do it and it will save a lot of ruined days and RMA's.


    The think-about-it:
    Remember we're talking about slapping 550-900 bucks worth of stock onto a 650 dollar base rifle. So we've doubled the cost which I guess isn't uncommon. Add in a proper scope and you end up with a $650 rifle that cost nearly $2000 to field. I don't think that's very uncommon anymore.

    The real value proposition:
    You can buy just the chassis then months later buy a buffer tube and castle nut, then a butt stock and then a pistol grip and then a scope mount and then a scope and then a bipod. These are all purchases that the average Joe can save up for and there's not a lot of them to be gotten. When he's done he'll have a long range capable rifle with a huge magazine capacity. The value isn't in the chassis as a completed system it's in the chassis as a foundation (the definition of a chassis).
  11. Jimmy2112 Active Member

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    Great review!

    You hit on many things that also caught my attention on the LSS for the Mossy and the Rem 700. Especially a bridge for the forearm. I've asked MDT repeatedly for one (so have others), that uses the existing mounting points that are on the forearm. Having that extra real estate to hold on to, would be so beneficial, especially for off handed shooting. Unfortunately, I don't think MDT is listening.
  12. PT109 Active Member

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    Well said! I had fully anticipated a masterpiece in aluminum when I ordered my chassis. A complete thought from start to finish. But the shortcomings are becoming obvious with every negative comment I hear about the chassis as well as my own bad experience with an LSS. Do not get me wrong, I love the LSS chassis. Almost feels like my AR when in shooting position and that is good! But that magazine did not feel secure like my AR. Why not? I think it's time for a Gen 2 with some new accessories! Or the Tac21 for the MVP.
    Jimmy2112 likes this.
  13. Jimmy2112 Active Member

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    There is rumor that a Tac 21 is possibly in the works. Which would solve some of the short comings with the MVP LSS. A Gen II LSS is a great idea. Tighten up the mag well some, more reliable with the various magazines that are available.Maybe a slightly longer forearm, with an optional bridge to cover the barrel. That would help keep body parts off a hot barrel. A rethink of sling point attachments would be good too. Don't get me wrong, I do like the stock but there is a lot of room for improvement in a positive way.
    PT109 likes this.
  14. spamassassin Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys. I tried to be fair. I really do love the LSS despite my criticisms. It's very nearly perfect.

    The TAC21 is, if you ask me, one of the silliest designs extant. Among the just pointless design elements:

    It needlessly raises the scope height above bore centerline which has negative effects for shooters that are stretching the capabilities of their chambering.
    The thing doesn't even include a proper chassis since the part that represents what you would think of as the "chassis" comes in 2 pieces.
    The main component of the chassis is just a silly pointless shell over the top of the action that makes the action very difficult to install into the stock.
    The TAC21 is a multi-part chassis which makes as much sense to me as a 17 piece screwdriver or a 13 piece hammer. "Chassis" refers to a single substrate or solid framework that the rest of a thing is built around, not a bunch of parts that themselves bolt together. That's called an assembly.
    Why would you put a shell over that part of the rifle? All that comes from it is we have placed relatively fragile aluminum plates around a relatively indestructible steel receiver and barrel.
    The cost is just stunning. A heart stopping price for something that fails to meet the essential design criteria of what it says it is.

    It would seem to me that the LSS is actually an answer to most of the criticisms I have of the TAC21. The LSS itself introduced an opportunity for more criticism, this time of the LSS. MDT should take some advice and not let marketing guys specify stock feature sets or design elements. All I want is a thing to do what I need in a chassis: Give me a solid substrate to bolt my action and stock bits to, provide some ergonomic improvement over a sporter stock if possible and not interfere otherwise with the rifle operation or design. The idea of tacti-cool mall ninja looking kit that doesn't do what it should do doesn't make sense to me.

    Yes, the TAC21 looks really cool and that and $.50 will get you a local phone call. I'm pretty sure that the LSS should be viewed as a massive upgrade from the TAC21.
  15. bombadillo Moderator

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    Well, after a number of months owning a chassis, I'm planning on buying 2 MORE!!!! I'm going to go for a Remington 700 LSS, as well as another MVP chassis but want to rebarrel it into another caliber, with a bull barrel. I'm thinking of a 6mm variant or something of that nature. I want a super accurate model to shoot bugholes with.

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    Because we all like pictures, here is a pic that I am cross-posting from the photos gallery to here, but I am thoroughly enjoying this guy. I really want to spend some more trigger time, but I've been doing a lot of tweaking with the scope and rings. I just ordered heavy steel tactical rings from Hi-Lux and am really excited to get a new scope with it. I'm toying with another Vortex, or possibly a 4.5-18x44 Bushnell AR Optics.
    PT109 and Jimmy2112 like this.
  16. PT109 Active Member

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    Just about every day I talk myself out of buying another LSS and build an MVP in .308! Decided on a different route for now so PLEASE POST PICS! Get my fix that way for now!:) Have fun!
  17. bombadillo Moderator

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    Out of curiosity, I'm going to be playing with the action screw torque on my next outing, what are you guys using successfully? I haven't 100% dialed it in to what I think is the perfect poundage, but am on the prowl.
  18. PT109 Active Member

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  19. bombadillo Moderator

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    DANG, now they make me go buy ANOTHER!
    Jimmy2112 and Keith like this.
  20. Jimmy2112 Active Member

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    Now that's what we've been talking about. Glad to see MDT has changed their position about the LSS. The new extension mount. Great job MDT. Still hoping for a barrel type shroud.

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