Nikon M308 and Nikon scopes in general

Discussion in 'Optics and Tactical Gear' started by CaliforniaKid, Oct 30, 2016.

  1. CaliforniaKid New Member

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    Anyone have any experience with the M308 Nikon scope w/BDC or Nikons in general. Looks like it might be the ticket for my MVP LR in .308, but have never owned or used a Nikon. Did see one in Cabela's the other day and was impressed.
  2. wood chucker Moderator

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    IMHO Nikon does have know a thing or two when it comes to glass. I never did decide if the Pro Staff was the top of the budget scopes or the least expensive entry to the good stuff.

    To answer your specific question lets ask Spamassassin, Downs and Marneus.
  3. Keith Moderator

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    I have both models. Great scopes for the money. The only thing I don't like about them is you have no internal way to range estimate your target to use the BDC or the yardage turrents. For that reason, I think my next scope purchases using that concept will be Primary Arms scopes. They still have a BDC with a range estimator and some mil dot capabilities. Every review I've seen on their scopes has been favorable and I get the impression are of the same quality as a Nikon or Vortex brand scope (some of their scopes even look like they may be made by Vortex for PA)

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    Here is a couple examples of the PA reticlue in a scope with similar objective lens and magnification.

    [IMG]

    [IMG]
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  4. CaliforniaKid New Member

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    Had not thought about the range estimator. I guess I figured I would be shooting at known ranges for the most part. Very helpful, I'll try to find one to look at thanks.
    wood chucker likes this.
  5. Keith Moderator

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    You are welcome. I have a range finder, so the lack of range estimation in the Nikons isn't a big deal but I'm trying to move away from dependency on battery powered equipment. Batteries die, etched glass doesn't.
  6. Bayou Bengals 2014 New Member

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    I own 10 Nikon scopes and for the money you cant beat them. They have a lifetime warranty and from personal experience they really stand behind their products. The prostaff series of scopes are extremely durable have a total of four of them with 2 on 45-70's, 2 on 30-06's. Have a couple Monarch rifle scopes which are the top of the line for Nikon and they are equally as durable but you will pay considerably more for them. As for the P/M series of scope you cant go wrong with them. I had a p223 on my MVP and it held up fine and was a great pair for that rifle. (Removed it to put on my AR)

    As for not being able to range targets with the reticle, that could be an issue if you want that ability, but if you are shooting known distances then that should not be a problem. A range finder will fix that problem. If you are worried about batteries dying and being S.O.L., vortex makes monoculars that have a ranging reticle.
    Keith likes this.
  7. wood chucker Moderator

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  8. CaliforniaKid New Member

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    Thanks all. When in Cabela's the guy behind the counter seemed pretty unimpressed with Nikon and everything but Leupold for that matter. I was impressed with the clarity and overall workmanship of the Nikon. Just wanted to make sure others had good experiences with them before making a final decision. The scope comes with the flip up caps and the fact that it is designed with the 168 grn in mind seemed perfect to me. Most of my work will be under 400 yards so I'm thinking this should be a pretty good match up. As far as ranging goes a good range finder may not be a bad idea, but as many off season elk as I see during the year, maybe I can figure out a way to use the scope to help with that as well. I can scope them and then measure distance later to see if the BDC helps in that area? Again, thanks everyone.
  9. Keith Moderator

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    I'll have to read through that but from what I've seem just glancing through real fast, those are reticules designed to range. The Nikon BDC has no thought of ranging built into it at all.

    [IMG]
  10. Keith Moderator

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    How can I put this?.... There are a lot of Leupold fan boys that will accept nothing else even if it is of equal quality or better. Nothing wrong with Leupold and they do make some very nice glass. They just aren't the only company out there to make scopes of decent quality and clarity. Like in anything else, there are people who are brand loyalists and will not listen to or believe decenting or contrary information no matter how much proof you show. Ie. Dodge is the best and Ford and Chevy are crap. Or Case/International is the best and John Deere and New Holland are crap.
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  11. wood chucker Moderator

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    I'm pulling these numbers out of my hat but the principal is well known.

    Lets just say a scope has a duplex reticle, coarse cross hairs with fine cross hairs in the middle.
    When your scope is set on # power, at * yards the the thickness of the fine cross hairs cover 2 inches of the target.
    The thickness of the coarse cross hairs cover 8 inches of target.
    The point at the end of the taper where the coarse cross hairs turn into fine, the distance between that and intersection of the fine cross hairs is 30 inches

    So if the fella with this scope has done his mathematics and a little practicing before hand and he knows the average size of game animals and man made features in his AO ( whistle pigs average 12 inches tall sitting straight up, deer 30 inches at the shoulder, fence posts 48 inches etc. )
    He can use parts of his scope reticle when its set on * power as a ruler to compare to known sizes of the target and man made features to estimate ranges better than just guessing.

    Weaver and Bushnell used to devote a whole page to this stuff in the scope owners pamphlets. That was 30-40 years ago though so we have to make the measurements ourselves now if we want to do this.

    Why bother with this when we have 24 power scopes with mill dots target turrets and whatnot today?
    Because not everyone wants to put a three pound 24 power mill dot target turret scope on their truck gun or walking varmint or mountain rifle or....you get the picture.
    Keith likes this.
  12. spamassassin Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ W00t. As the owner of a number of extremely heavy tactical and target scopes, they suck to carry in the field. This is the one area where I do think a simple BDC reticle can be helpful as long as the user has done a little homework. The thing chucker speaks of with using a standard duplex reticle as a ranging aid is actually the foundation of a nifty thing from long past that's come back with a vengeance. First Focal Plane. At least as far back as the 60's there was a reticle called the 30/30 reticle. IIRC it was a Tasco thing for branding but was used on a great gooey gob of scopes. I have one made under the label "Hurricane". The FFP nature means it holds scale regardless of magnification and made it simpler to use. On a second focal plane variable scope you can still use it though it requires a little algebra to be super accurate. The 30/30 reticle is 30 minutes of arc or about 30 inches or about the length of an average deer from brisket to butthole. One trick is setting your maximum point blank range long with a good long hunting zero. Your MBPR can define how far a shot you can take by just holding on center mass in the boiler room.

    Or, assuming you do in fact have a 30moa thin section in your duplex reticle on a 3-9x variable (just to define variables for the math) we read our owners manual or try it out at the range and discover that at 9x 30moa is subtended at 100yrds from thick post to thick post. So at 400yrds a 30" long deer will only take up about 1/2 of one side of the thin side of the reticle. So if you zero my 7mag with my pet hunting load at 100 yards I can go all the way to 375 holding on hair. If I see the deer getting to the limit then I have to think carefully about my options but the reticle has at least provided information.
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  13. Keith Moderator

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    The only scope brand I know for sure to have the 30/30 now is Konus. The concept you and woodchucker are speaking about, I get in theory but then I get lost in the variables.

    The Nikons we were originally talking about are certainly not FFP scopes. The PA scopes on the other hand are. At least the ones I made reference too. Aside from their $1200 scopes, these are the only ones they sell that are FFP. The rest are pretty much your average SFP scope and generally are 1-X scopes, though there are a few fixed powered and higher magnification scopes thrown in there. Their biggest selling points other than the quality of glass your get for the money (they still aren't a high end scope, except maybe the top end ones, maybe). Is the built in ranging with the BDC (with some MIL qualities to the reticule) and not having to have batteries for the thing to work (though it does make it nicer in some situations to have the illumination).

    There are certainly better scopes out there. The reticules they have would probably be superior as well with a full on MIL scale reticule as well. There is a reason the top end scope have what they have. Most people don't want to spend that kind of money. Most people also don't push their rifles, cartridge capabilities, or themselves to the limits like you do. The ranges you shoot and the accuracy you do it in is pretty darn amazing. I still need to free up some time to see if I can even think about starting to think about shooting out that far. After I figure out what my rifles likes best of course. That is still a work in progress but I'm working on it. :)
  14. spamassassin Well-Known Member

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    BDC's are in my book just not worth the cost of including them in the optic. They're great for large steel targets and informal shooting but my need to assassinate cleanly anything made of meat that I shoot at pulls me right off the BDC bandwagon for a critter killing rifle or tactical rifle. Thankfully in my life I've never shot at much that needed any range doping and generally would not. Those shots just don't happen to many people. Deer wear camo after all and I don't see em' 500m away ever. If the owner does their homework and gets their BDC dope properly charted and hunt with it, man it's a handy thing to have up to about 400m but then the ballistics of common big game rounds comes in a pees all over the party pretty rapidly.

    For those that haven't had good training in using BDC and scaled reticles, if you can find some time in central California for a weekend I'll teach you with a 1.5 day intro class at no charge (well, $5 range fee but I don't get that). You'll need 100 rounds minimum and the scope you want to learn to use and we'll get you hitting 800m the first day on your own. Gotta be ready to learn, it's only a sip from the fire hose but it's still a fire hose.
    Fritz373 likes this.
  15. Keith Moderator

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    I've been watching some of Tiborasaurusrex's videos on the subject and fire hose is an understatement. I knew some of it but there is a lot to learn.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  16. spamassassin Well-Known Member

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    He gets really deep into detail but honestly the only things I have to worry about in my usual match scenario is wind and gross drop. There's only 2 targets I even include things like spin drift into. Thankfully that course of fire is all north shots. If it were east or west I'd have to adjust for vertical coriolis on a handful more.
  17. Fritz373 Member

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    :( Sigh.
    I can't wait to move out of Jersey....
    Actually, in it's own way, Jersey has a lot of good going for it.
    But when it comes to firearms, well.....
    The anti-gun people just can't understand that some of us just want to cut paper.
    No, I don't hunt. Never have, never will. Have my reasons.
    But I definitely respect those that do.
    I always did like to shoot targets ever since Boy Scout days.
    Someday again... .
    Keith likes this.
  18. Keith Moderator

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    Most every State has it's pluses and minuses. Unless my State changes for the better in 10 years, I'm moving to a less bass ackward one after I retire. Not a "grass is greener" thing but a warmer winter and less "Teamster" mentality thing.


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