My MVP lc 7.62

Discussion in '308/ 7.62 MVP and Variants' started by TomL, Feb 1, 2017.

  1. TomL Member

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Message Count:
    44
    I just didn't like the Mossberg
    Trigger and replaced it with a
    Timney trigger.
    After, receiving it back from Mossberg
    The trigger still started clicking occasionally.
    But, never locked up.
    The fear of locking up and
    Clicking just screwed me up.
    The new trigger is so nice
    I crisp , clear trigger pull
    Now. It totally improved my
    Groups. I can put 5 rounds
    Within a half inch at 100yds.

    One screw and 5 minutes
    And it was changed.
    jason.hayes3 likes this.
  2. CaliforniaKid New Member

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2016
    Message Count:
    28
    I replaced mine with a Timney as well but can't get to the range to try it out. Too much snow. Hopefully soon. Did you have to drill out a little of your stock in front of the trigger guard to get the Timney to fit? It was necessary on my LR. Not a big deal. But so much smoother than the Mossberg trigger. Nice and crisp. Put on a new scope as well, just need to get my sitelite out, dial it in and pray for good enough weather to get up to the range.
  3. TomL Member

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Message Count:
    44
    I didn't have to touch the stock.
    It dropped I'm so easy. Put original
    Screw back from old trigger.

    I have the mdt lss modular
    Stock made for Mossberg by
    Mdt.
    This type of stock had totally
    Eliminated the need to bed
    The action to improve accuracy.
    I want to build a new rifle.
    Buy an action in the caliber I'm interested
    In. Buy the barrel , stock , trigger etc.
    Just not sure of caliber ?
  4. CaliforniaKid New Member

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2016
    Message Count:
    28
    Would have thought people would have chimed in on caliber preferences by now. Everyone has there own favorites of course. What are you wanting to do with the rifle? Hunt and if so what or is this gonna be a dedicated paper puncher?
  5. TomL Member

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Message Count:
    44
    I don't hunt
    Very into target shooting.
    My dream is long range.
    Up to 1000yds.
    The 308 I have know is good.
    It can reach that distance.
    Long barrel life. I load all my ammo.
    Starting to build my own
    Accurate hand loads.

    Everyone is promoting the
    6.5 cm or their weapon system is a
    300 mag etc.
    These are expensive to shoot and
    Have short barrel lives.
    In the future I want to use the alco
    Bullets. Very high BC to compete
    With larger caliber weapons.
    My barrel is only 18.5 inches and
    I want something like 24/26 inches.
    I'm going to FloridA in a month
    Or so and want to buy an action
    But I need to decide on the caliber.
    What to build ?
    I know it will be expensive to build my
    Own modular rifle.
    Action 500
    Barrel 700
    Stock. 400
    Scope 1500 etc
    Misc parts not sure of the
    Exact cost.

    I geared up for 308 reloading
    Maybe necking down 308 to
    Another caliber?
    I need to add nothing wrong with a
    308 with the range I'm considering.
  6. boostless Active Member

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2014
    Message Count:
    201
    Since you reload I'd suggest looking into the 7-08. Little better ballistics than the .308 and still has a decent barrel life. If needed you could neck down your 308 brass as well.

    Just my $0.02
  7. spamassassin Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2014
    Message Count:
    1,099
    Converting .308 to 7mm-08 is a little tedious as you need to do a neck ream to clear the donut. Once you've done that though it's done. Barrel life with the 7-08 is ridiculous. I know guys with 6K+ rounds out of them and still shooting MOA. Here's the my experiences with 1K yrds with the various calibres:

    .308: BC's suck till you get up into the heaviest bullets which kick like a mule. Barrel life is fantastic until you get to magnums where it plummets. .308's are ok with 178's and some 165-168's to 1k but because BC sucks so hard they slow down a lot and get blown around by the wind on the long end. Takes a lot of powder to get them over 3K fps and high bullet weight (200-230gn) that have good BC's take up a lot of case space in .308win so MV is low. All around, great for military standardization, iffy for long range. Huge selection of hunting to match grade bullets.

    .284/7mm: BC's are pretty good in mid-weight and insane in heavy weight. 180's and 195's are as tall as you'll find commonly. 168 Bergers have .617 G1 BC and reach over 2700fps from a .308win case. Recoil is mild but not as soft as 6 or 6.5mm. Huge bullet selection from hunting to match grade. Barrel life is nearly as good as .30cal given equal powder charge weights but with a good whack less recoil. Great wind bucker at higher velocities.

    .277: the ol 6.8spc or .270win. Amazing on game performance and good ballistics but a very poor showing in bullet selection and chamberings. Leave it for meat shooting.

    .264/6.5mm: 105gn and up have very high BC's. Low relative bullet weight and high velocity mean relatively short barrel life as you hit 2800fps or more and very short barrel life at or above 3k fps. Soft kicking, great bullet selection and bucks wind really well.

    .257: Just no. It's like the .270, just terribly poor representation in match grade bullets. Leave it for meat.

    .243: Iffy with the lower bullet weights but with the top weight bullets at 105-ish BTHP and 115 DTAC's it's a monster. Barrel life is bad after 2800fps and you really need to launch them at least that fast to get good benefit of the low drag. Around 3k FPS it's darned near a laser beam. Wind bucking is amazing especially over 2700fps MV. THE bullet to use is the 115DTAC which are fairly expensive for a .243 cal.

    .223: Once you know how to deal with really nasty wind and you've decided you can't be punched in the face enough by someone that's also simultaneously insulting your mom and kicking your dog, do long range with a .223. They're a special sort of hell for beginners even at modest ranges.

    To decide, figure out how much you shoot and how much you like recoil.
  8. TomL Member

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Message Count:
    44
    spamassassin,

    Your definitely correct about
    The tedious work involved
    In converting to 7mm-08.
    Watched a few videos on converting
    308 to 7mm. Don't want to get
    Involved.
    I definitely have the bug to
    Build a new rifle, but my
    308 is actually fine for the range
    I'm interested in shooting.
    I have been reading and watching
    Reviews comparing for example
    168 gr Berger and other name
    Brand mfg to the 168 gr Alco
    Aluminum tip bullets. Alco
    Outperforms them and extends
    The range of the 308. Alco 168
    Grain bullets have a BC of 870.

    I can spend a few years
    Shooting 400 to 1000yds.
    Suppressors can extent barrel length
    But very expensive.




    I really like the 223
    For my wife. I know she is
    Going to get sick of the .17
    I bought her to introduce
    Her to shooting and I have to say
    She loves it.
    If pretty inexpensive to shoot.
  9. spamassassin Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2014
    Message Count:
    1,099
    Pro-Tip: Alco's are ultra expensive and bloody near made of unobtanium and what they really buy you is about 300 yards or so of supersonic flight. If you want to shoot em' that's your call but as a point of fact for a .308 the dramatically higher cost of the bullets would 100% not break even over the barrel life to the cost of a new barrel anyway. In fact it's even worse than that.

    Lemme splain: If you figure a 5K round barrel life in a .308 (for match performance) and bullets that are 50 cents a bullet for Berger or 30 cents a bullet for Sierra/Hornady/etc....while the Alco's are 80-90 cents a bullet. So figure fifty cents a round difference over the life of that barrel, $.5 * 5000 = $2500. For the cost of using those bullets you can have a whole new custom rifle. FWIW, Alco 168's are .618 not .680. .618 is exactly the same as a 168gn Berger 7mm Hunting VLD which costs half as much and is common as chicken feathers. I use Berger 168 Hunting VLD's in one of my match rifles, they're expensive as conventional bullets go (45-50 cents each versus 30 cents each for my Hornady loads) but they rock.

    Might I suggest you look into something a little off the beaten path? I figure you might not have heard of all of these but that doesn't make them hard to use I promise. Perhaps a 7x57AI or a .284win if you want to go 1500+ or if you only want to go around 1300m a 7mm-.250sav or a 7x47mm would be exactly up your alley giving 7mm-08 performance and they're all way easier to deal with than 7mm-08. The 7x47 is a little miracle cartridge, able to launch 168's at 2700 from a .250sav case on a 22" barrel and since they're all neck up operations, no neck reaming. 22-24" barrels are the sweet spot.

    Personally I just hate .30 cal. It kicks too hard for what you get ballistically. Something like a .260AI or .260rem has radically less kick and IIRC you can easily form brass from .243 brass without all the neck turning that .308 to 7mm-08 needs. I like 7mm because I still get good bullet weight which helps with impact sound volume on steel at long range and I get high bc's and I get pretty high velocities for each bullet weight with less powder than a .30 cal would need and less resultant perceived recoil.
  10. TomL Member

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Message Count:
    44
    I was on the Berger website
    This morning. I was using
    Their calculator to check out the
    Stability of several different
    Bullets I'm interested in.

    168, 175 and 210 grain
    Bullets. The program indicates
    That with my 1:10 twist
    would be stabilize these bullets
    Using the powder (velocity)
    I put into the calc.
    I am only interested in the
    1000yds range for the
    Near future.
    I only mentioned the Alco bullets
    Because they have a superior
    BC and can compete with
    Higher ballistically efficient
    Bullets you mentioned.

    I envisioned using the Alco
    Bullets for special occasions.
    Your correct, to expensive
    To use them a lot.
    The alco bullets do seem to
    Out perform bullets we are
    Familiar with.
    Screenshot_2017-02-11-18-42-16.png
  11. spamassassin Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2014
    Message Count:
    1,099
    My advice as a long range shooter: avoid special use-case bullets. In fact, avoid having even multiple load specs. No long range precision shooter I know maintains multiple load specs. They don't do that for good reasons: Load development as a component of barrel life, overall consistency, ability keep component stock on hand. Pick a bullet and load spec that's going to get you where you need to be and make a lot of rounds with them. Plan to keep a pretty good whack of supplies on hand and to load in fairly large batches. Doing things small will mean you're buying components from varied lots which is bad for consistency and you're prone to running out of components at bad times which is fatal for being able to shoot.

    In your case I'd suggest something like the ELD-Match in 168 or 178grain https://www.midwayusa.com/product/3...r-308-diameter-168-grain-boat-tail-box-of-100 or https://www.midwayusa.com/product/8...r-308-diameter-178-grain-boat-tail-box-of-100 BC is around .550 for the 178. The 168 is down around .520. .550 upside .618 is a pretty small difference and the ELD-M's are 30 cents a bullet and shoot like a house on fire. You get >90% of the capability for 30% of the cost and your bullets can be bought in a regular store like Bass Pro unlike the Alco's. Don't get me wrong, Alco makes a neat bullet but they're not really solving any problem that's not solved by a more economical and easy to deal with solution. If you start to need to use a .308win to reach 1300 meters then the alco's start making sense. Thankfully there are exactly zero use cases of that sort.

    Don't get hung up on BC's. You only need to get to 1km supersonic. To get there all you need is a .460bc at 2700fps at sea level. Add elevation or BC or velocity and the range extends. What the alco's are actually buying you is either 300 yards of additional supersonic range or about 6MOA of drop.

    Oh, one bit of info, the image above has a catastrophic error in the representation of values. There's no way they're cutting >30MOA of drop off with that BC. The math has it around 7.2MOA. Don't buy into marketing hype.
  12. TomL Member

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Message Count:
    44
    Good advice spamassassin,

    I have been looking at the rifle I
    Invested a lot of money and time
    Into and I realize that it has some
    Good features.
    My rifle has a free floated Barr
    Short (18.5 in), thick barrel
    Housed in an MDT lss stock.
    One piece scope rail over the
    Action.
    All these things make it very rigid.
    It so happens, I selected the
    168 grain hornady amax bullet
    And I am experimenting with different
    Loads to fine the one that matches
    My barrel harmonics.
    To find the right bullet and
    Powder charge that match
    My rifle harmonics.

    20170205_121308.jpg
    wood chucker likes this.
  13. TomL Member

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Message Count:
    44
    spamassassin,
    With all this great calibre info
    You didn't mention the ,260 rem.

    Its definitely superior to the 308
    I can use my 308 brass to make
    260 ammo without much trouble
    Like forming the 308 brass into other
    Calibers.
    The 260 has more fps then 6.5
    At 1000 yds. More energy then
    6.5 at that distance. Knockdown.
    Same weight bullet as ,6.5
    At that distance.
    Flatter trajectory then 6.5
    Better in wind the 6.5 at that distance.
    Recoil is low.
    Because the 260 will have a little
    More velocity then 6.5 at 1000 yds
    For example, it will stay supersonic
    Longer. Better accuracy.
    The 260 like the 6.5 can compete
    With the heavy magnums !
    But I prefer the 260
    I think it has good ballistic properties.
  14. spamassassin Well-Known Member

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2014
    Message Count:
    1,099
    It's a .264 and covered in my prior note. 260Rem is a good cartridge in its own right but I don't separate it from any other .264 cal case with 39-45 grains of capacity other than 6.5CM and 6.5x47 will give better brass and throat life and should be more intrinsically accurate. I'd think the .260's tapered body and more gradual neck would also work better in semi-auto platforms than the very straight bodied and sharp shouldered modern PRS oriented 6.5's. Of all the .264/6.5 chamberings I like the Swede best but it's too long for a proper short action. In a modern gun you can get some very impressive results from it since it'll handle the biggest 6.5mm bullets available, it was designed for them originally. I would not make .260 brass from .308 brass or 7mm-08 brass for that matter. You'll have a lot of neck turning to do and you'll have to have a special expander button or you'll probably rip the necks off or get cases stuck in the sizing die all the time. To make .260Rem brass I'd start with .243 brass. You may still have a little neck turning to do to get consistent neck thickness but not nearly as much as a neck-down operation. If you neck brass down you get a nasty donut in the neck that makes you have to neck turn which is a tedious PITA.
    wood chucker likes this.
  15. TomL Member

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2016
    Message Count:
    44
    Yep,
    you sure did mention it.
    I just think the bigger case
    With a small bullet is a great
    Combination . at the end of the
    Day if ou can push a small bullet
    With a higher fps / BC your going
    Have an advantage.
    Although the industry has
    Everyone promoting
    The 6.5 I realize it just about the
    Money. Reminds me of the
    Decades of playing golf watching the golf industry Promoting the countless new
    Products , to keep sales up every year.

    The firearms industry has to come up
    With new things every year and
    Convince you, your better off and happier
    With the new thing. So you buy the product.
    wood chucker likes this.

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