MOSSBERG PATROL 7.62 NATO PATROL ACCURACY

Discussion in 'Mossberg MVP Rifle General Discussion' started by seabreeze133, Mar 16, 2016.

  1. seabreeze133 Member

    Member Since:
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    I have the Mossberg Patrol in 7.62 NATO and it's time for a range report.

    Rifle has a 3-9 Weaver Kaspa scope, UTG aluminum LE QD rings and I am using the SR25 10 rd mags. Rifle is about a 2 minute gun w/Hornady 150 FMJ and about 3/4 min with 168 SMK, LCLR brass, and 41.5 gr IMR 4895. The 168 load is the old National Match load for M14, and works in my rifle. If u load with commercial brass, u may want to start at 40 gr and work up.

    May try slightly higher velocity w/the 150's as the current is a light load and the rifle may prefer hotter.

    I purchased a Williams receiver sight and mounted it in place of the factory sight as I do better w/peep sights. Have not checked the Williams sight yet so no comment on suitability.

    Cheers

    seabreeze
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  2. Keith Moderator

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    Not that it is a reload but so far the best results I've has was with 168 grain Remington Premier HPBT Match. If you can find out what recipe they are using, that might be the way to go. Federal Sierra Match King was good too but Remington was better.


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  3. jwb47 Active Member

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    I have had good luck with hornady amax 168 grain and varget powder using winchester brass and cci large rifle primers .
  4. Ulfberht Training and mentoring the next generation.

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    Good info; I might try some 168gs....I've always thought 147-150g was best for .308 (except for 180g in thick brush etc.).

    Anyone think it would make a difference at 250 yards or less?

    Would be sending them through a Rem 788.
  5. seabreeze133 Member

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2014
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    Gentlemen

    Thanks for the feedback.

    My experience with NRA HiPower matches was that 168 SMK bullets were good to 600 on a calm day, but windy conditions were best approached with Nosler 180 ballistic tips. The Nosler 180 bullets were not much good beyond 600 where the SMK 190 worked well. But...now the 175 SMK works well to 1000 yds.
    So my suggestion for accuracy, if they work in your rifle, is the 168 SMK to 600. I am loading the Hornady 150 FMJBT for practice and a 2 to 3 minute load will suffice to 500 for practice. Plus I do not shoot factory ammo because of the price.

    Cheers

    seabreeze
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  6. Keith Moderator

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    168 and 175 are the preferred rounds of snipers. But Match King bullets are only a range and competition round. I still need to play with some rounds intended for deer and the like.

    I can't say for sure with 147 since all I've shot at that weight is PMC Bronze. Not a terrible round but I also haven't tried to do any real precision work with it either.

    150 grain Lake City is pretty much the same for me. I haven't tried to do any real precision work with it. Since it is a surplus military round, the ballistics may be somewhat different than .308.

    For deer hunting, 150 - 165 does seem to be the preferred consensus with hunters.

    With winter and trying to catch up with some major projects around the house, I haven't had much range time to experiment.

    Of course, the usual caveat must be spoken about what works well in my MVP might not be the same for you, or my M&P for that matter. While it would be lovely if both liked the same ammo, I'm not even going to try and let that pipe dream live.


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  7. seabreeze133 Member

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    Well my next step is the 175 SMK in the LCLR brass with 41.5 gr 4064. Had good luck in past w/ a slightly higher charge in commercial brass and the Nosler 180 BT. But...when I tried the same load w/Lake City Match, had great difficulty extracting the empty brass and after a good day at 2 and 3, ended up with 1 round at 600. Oops. The loading manuals suggest reduction in charges when using military brass. Be careful.

    cheers

    seabreeze
  8. rawhidekid Member

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    Another problem with mil brass is the body of the brass stretched out of tolerance.;)
  9. Keith Moderator

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    If shot out of a .308, it will be. In the MVP, since it has a 7.62 chamber, it should not be out of tolerance.

    I'm trying to remember the difference between the two chambers after a very long day, so I might have the information wrong but I believe the difference between the .308 and the 7.62 is the same as 5.56 and .223 but in reverse.


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  10. spamassassin Well-Known Member

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    .308 and 7.62 are identical chambers for our purposes. Only gunsmiths really care, however, semi-auto operators should NOT shoot .308 in a gun chambered specifically for NATO spec ammo. It'll beat it up.

    Lemme break down some things to make it clearer (from book learnin' and experience):

    .308 commercial ammo runs to 62K psi peak.
    7.62x51 runs to 58k peak.
    .308 headspace is tighter, meaning military NATO spec 7.62x51mm chambers are going to be sloppy compared to a commercial .308 chamber and .308 brass fired in a NATO chamber will be significantly out of spec for reuse in a .308 without the shoulder being pushed back.

    That's about it. Yes there are a couple other things. What this comes down to is, don't shoot .308 commercial spec loads that are max pressure from a 7.62x51mm gun that's meant specifically for 7.62 NATO. It's not because the gun will blow up or anything, it's just that it may jam it or damage it and it's certainly no good for the commercial brass. Worst case scenario is that the chamber will be so loose that the brass won't be able to stretch that far and might rupture (this would take a special set of circumstances as well and I don't consider it a major issue but watch for the bright ring of case death).

    The MVP having a NATO chamber simply means that the chambers are sloppy as far as commercial .308 specs are concerned. If you shoot some commercial .308 in it and then try to reload those for another gun that's chambered in .308 commercial spec then you will likely have trouble and in any event will need to push the shoulders back and will find your brass rejection rate to skyrocket. So if you plan to reload and you have say, an AR-10 or anything from Browning (those especially), you're going to NEED to segregate brass for your .308 chambered rifles from brass for your 7.62 chambered guns.

    As far as the pressures go, military spec ammo runs at milspec pressures BUT they do have to run proof loads on the guns. Military proof loads for 7.62 are done at 67Kpsi which is nicely in excess of commercial spec max normal pressure. That said, commercial .308 chambers are proofed at almost 90K and seeing what's come out of some retail boxes lately it looks to me like commercial ammo is being pumped up closer and closer to the SAAMI pressure limits.

    A note for Browning owners: Browning lever and semi-auto rifles are TIGHT chambered in my experience. I have had nothing but broken guns come from trying to get milspec nato brass sized for them. Even their bolt guns are snug but not like their lever and semi offerings. If you run a Browning in .308 then use only commercial brass and use a small base die and don't shoot brass from it that's been put through a NATO spec chamber. If you don't take some precautions you'll probably get what I've gotten a half dozen times from that (before I figured it out): It'll chamber just fine but you'll have to beat the bolt open with a hammer and dowel and you'll break parts of the internal workings and need to replace them.
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  11. Ulfberht Training and mentoring the next generation.

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    Great thread; learning is so good for the brain :rolleyes:.

    I've been working hand-loads with a Rem 788 and DPMS LR.308; a lot of my problems (O/F military brass) were fixed with the small (or short) base dies. Backing off max loads for safety, but the next step seems to be separating the brass (comm/mil).

    The length I want usually sets the bullets into the lands (particularly 150g Hornady FMJ); so dialing back the powder to lower CUP seems like a good idea. But working off data in the Lee 2nd Edition and online is nothing less than a leap of faith.

    So, for now-on I'm separating the brass.

    Thanks for sharing the info gents.

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