7.62 Patrol Accuracy

Discussion in '308/ 7.62 MVP and Variants' started by Marneaus, Jan 27, 2015.

  1. spamassassin Well-Known Member

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    That's the key. I think people think different things equal long range. I often use a reticle hold to >1000yrds but I don't like to because wind holds are not as precise off of the main x-axis of the crosshair and I'm usually shooting for points instead of giggles. For up to 600yrds though, no point in spending the extra hundreds on a scope with great turrets. The turrets don't need to be fantastic to dial a zero (but it helps) if the reticle is accurate which it seems to be. That PA 4-14x is a FFP optic isn't it?
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  2. Keith Moderator

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    He also makes it a point that the PA system is good enough when you don't have the time or ability to do the math or the time to be cranking turrets to dial in your shot. Since most living targets refuse to stay still for very long, the dope is constantly changing.

    For completion target shooting where very small measurements matter and the target shouldn't be moving, a PA scope would more than likely be a deal breaker. One needs a scope that tracks consistently and precisely. One of the top end $1300 - $1500 scopes might do it but not the ones in question.

    For everything I've seen on the product line and what I presently need a scope for, the Primary Arms scopes should fit the bill.

    If I ever get into competition shooting like Spam does, I'll need to get something like what he has. Now to save enough money for it. Think a small mortgage would cover the funds needed? :p


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  3. Keith Moderator

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    It is. I think at that price point, the three models they offer with that magnification have it. Outside of the premium models, I think everything else is SFP.


    EDIT: The only thing I don't like about those scopes is the exposed target turrets. With a scope like that, it should be "set it and forget it' with capped adjustment knobs. For most scopes with a BDC reticle, target turrets are a wasted expense that just opens up opportunities for your zero to get bumped out of whack.


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  4. spamassassin Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I could do every bit of my normal prone LR matches on a PA 4-14x with my .223. The aforementioned wind issues would kill my scores though. But, for the guy that is on a budget and wants to get shooting while the 2nd mortgage paperwork is put through should do well with it. When I was early in my competition shooting with optics I thought I was doing ok with low end but high quality stuff like Bushnell ET1040's and SWFA 10x and 16x SS's. They actually were great but the optical clarity I was missing out on that I got when I upped to US Optics and then to Vortex Razor Gen II's really made the most difference. Being able to see blades of grass moving around really helped my wind doping. My scopes have always had good turret quality but the high end tree style reticles have also been quite helpful since I've converted to them. Honestly, I don't think 99.9% of even long range competitors need anything more than an $800 SWFA HD 10x for build quality and turret tracking. I think everyone could benefit from uber expensive optics but not in any way that the value would be returned to them.

    For those wanting to get into some higher end optics, SnipersHide and Longrangehunting.com have some really good deals pop up pretty regularly. Pro-Tip: Don't jump too early just because something is a good deal. Make sure you get THE SCOPE YOU WANT regardless of price. Then you'll be happy.

    My USO ST-10 was 1500 retail, you can pick them up for 900 used.
    My USO ER-25 was 3600 retail, you can get them all day now for 2400
    My USO SN4 3.8-22x was about 4000 retail when new. You can get them for 1500-1800 used.
    My Vortex Razor Gen II's were each 2400 new. You can get them pretty regularly for 1900 or under used.

    Yeah, I know, 2 grand on a scope is stupid expensive. It's not that bad once you've done it. You'll only ever NEED to do it once. These are scopes for a lifetime at this level. Even when new stuff comes out it's nothing too terribly exciting once you've already got top end glass on one of your rifles. And, there's nothing wrong with owning one kickass scope and moving it around from rifle to rifle as necessary. I did that crap for years with great results.

    Sightron is also a very much underappreciated brand. Their top end stuff is very very good.
    Keith likes this.
  5. Bobby Kobito Member

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    What you all mentioned is exactly why I went with the PA Scope because in a Real World Situation (dollar collapse, society breakdown etc) you are not going to be able to sit there and try to figure everything and then add moving target to boot & this scope is the shite.... However, for Long Range 'Precision' Shooting or a Gun Match where Scoring 'Points' is critical to win, I can see why you would want to spend the extra money for a higher end scope with way better Turrets. I know that regardless of what we use, everything has a purpose, which should dictate what and why we own, what we own, imho.
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  6. Noob_Marksman New Member

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    Bobby, that PA scope has more than a novice like me even needs! I have done a LOT of thinking about the best use of the weapon in my life. The Monstrum Tactical 2-7 that I was gifted is Not gonna cut it! 6 inch groups at 100 yards will not be adequate to kill a big hog. And from what I've learned from this forum, the Patrol 7.62 isn't gonna lend itself well to shots of 1000 yards and beyond. So, when I get better glass on her, my Patty is gonna be a Hog and medium range fun rifle. When I decide to reach into the long distances, I'll probably go with a much different chambering.
  7. Bobby Kobito Member

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    Hey man check out this Video on the PA HUD/DMR Reticle:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=r0oLPFNWCLE
    You said you are a Novice right, and that's the whole point of this Scope and its Reticle! No Math etc. just sight in at 100 yards and everything that the Reticle has can EASILY be put to use!
    Seriously, check out the Video and get a better understanding of that Reticle, it's easier than what it looks like.
    Good Luck.
  8. Greybeard New Member

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    Feb 28, 2017
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    Shot group 100yards with 150 grain tulammo. Rifle did not like the xm80 federal. Going to get some 168 for it soon.

    [IMG]
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  9. spamassassin Well-Known Member

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    Well, someone found their load. Now you need to get 10000000 boxes of it all from the same lot. Other lots may or may not shoot nearly as well.

    Prvi has been impressing me lately. Their consistency is much better than I'm used to.
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  10. Keith Moderator

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    I found mine felt the same way with XM80. My .308 chambered M&P10 shoots XM80 better than the rifle chambered for, well XM80. LOL


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  11. Greybeard New Member

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    Mine is chambered in 7.62 but it didn't like the xm80 at all.

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  12. wood chucker Moderator

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    Ball ammo is crap for accuracy. That and last time I checked the barrels are 10 twist, which tends to favor heavier bullets.
  13. Keith Moderator

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    Correct. Ball ammo is built to be accurate to "minute of man" in a combat situation. And by the lowest bidder. Not the best combo for accuracy.

    I believe you are correct on the twist rate. I don't remember a .308 rifle not having 1:10, not saying they don't exist.
  14. Bobby Kobito Member

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    I have shot a 1,000 Hornady Bullets 30 Caliber (308 Diameter) 150 Grain Full Metal Jacket Boat Tail with my MVP PATROL in .308 and can consistently shoot .50" MOA at 100 yards! I have posted pics of my targets proving this. Now granted the FMJ 150 gr only has a BC of .398 but that will easily take you out to 600 yards, right? Bottom line is a 5 MOA or less (the size of an average mans hand) is considered a Kill Shot on 2 or 4 legged animals! Folks are always BLAMING something other than their own marksmanship skills! The fact is todays Rifles will out shoot any of US and the 99.9% of misses etc. are HUMAN ERROR and NOT the Rifle or Bullet!
  15. Keith Moderator

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    I personally am happy with "minute of deer" but that doesn't mean I can't strive for better.

    Since you mentioned bullets and not cartridges, am I correct in assuming these are hand/reloads? If so, how does factory Hornady rounds compare? I ask because, while I would like to reload in the future, I'm not there yet. So I have to work with whatever I get off the shelf for the time being.


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  16. Bobby Kobito Member

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    Yeah, I reload my own Keith. When using the Hornady 150gr FMJ's I am using 43.1 grains of H4895, which is literally .1 grain over minimum, and it seems to work for me and gets the job done . I don't own a Chronograph so I can't say what the actually fps but Lee Handbook states that it should be around 2742 fps or so. When using Hornady 168gr Match HPBT using H4895 at just 43.1 grs which is .4 grain below maximum. I just started using the 168's and shooting between 1/2 to 3/4 moa at 100 yards but if I have a good day at the range I can get 1/3 moa with them.
    As compared to Factory, I couldn't say as I haven't used them in about 3 yrs or more. However, I personally believe that Hand Loading is even better than Mass Produced 'Match' ammo you can buy over the counter! It costs me around $.32 a round now that I own 200 cases of Lapua brass that I bought from midwayusa.com.
    I started out using 'Lee Loader' for .308 https://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-308-Win-Loader/dp/B013XRXXR8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497497040&sr=8-1&keywords=lee loader 308 which now costs $35.91 so no press is needed & no dedicated Press area, I use mine at my computer desk> In addition, you'll need is a double face mallet https://www.amazon.com/Beatingon-Double-Face-Soft-Mallet-35mm/dp/B01ER7HVTE/ref=sr_1_4?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1497497446&sr=1-4&keywords=soft mallet $7, a weigh scale https://www.amazon.com/Frankford-Arsenal-205205-Digital-Reloading/dp/B002BDOHNA/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1497497566&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=franklin scale $23.70 and Lee's primer pocket tool & chamfer tool which is in Lee Precision Case Conditioning Kit https://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-Case-Conditioning-Kit/dp/B008MG9HN0/ref=sr_1_2?s=sports-and-fitness&ie=UTF8&qid=1497497287&sr=1-2&keywords=lee pocket cleaner for $13.00
    Keith likes this.
  17. spamassassin Well-Known Member

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    What I did when I was in an apartment with no dedicated space for loading, I got a stand for a bench grinder. One post with 3 feet and a platform on top. Mounted my Lee Challenger press to it and spend several years doing it that way from my recliner in the living room.
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  18. Keith Moderator

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    Space is the issue. And thank you. I figure I'll have room once I get some shelves built in the basement and get some of mom's hoarding issues under some semblance of control and order


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